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Same-Sex Marriage Bill Passes Senate in 20-4 Vote

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   October 30th, 2013 · 123 Comments · Comments Via Facebook (40) · Maui News
Photo/image by Wendy Osher.

Photo/image by Wendy Osher.

By Wendy Osher

The Senate voted today 20 to 4 to pass a bill on third and final reading to legalize same-sex marriage in Hawaiʻi.

The measure will now be transmitted to the House for review.

Under the bill, marriages between individuals of the same gender would be recognized in the state, and same-sex couples would be extended the same rights, benefits, protections, and responsibilities that married couples of the opposite-sex are presently entitled to.

All three Maui Senators voted in favor of the measure.

During testimony today Maui Senator Gil Keith-Agaran said, “In three weeks, I will be celebrating my eighth anniversary.  My friends who know me, obviously (know) my marriage is a work in progress; and I don’t claim to be an expert in marriage.”

“But,” he said, “I believe I have enough faith and sober humility to understand that the success or failures in my marriage depend more on the work and love I pour into that committed relationship, than whether or not we as a government, whether we as a legislature, and whether we as a community exclude or welcome other Hawaiʻi citizens from entering into marriage.  I vote aye,” said Senator Keith-Agaran.

Fellow Senator Roz Baker of Maui also voted in support of the measure, pointing towards her childhood in the Deep South.  “For the entire 12 years of my elementary, middle school, and high school years, I did not go to school with one black child, although there were plenty of black children in my town.”

“I’ve seen up close and personal the ugly face of discrimination, and with every minority group, you simply don’t put their right on the ballot for a popular vote, because like the decision to get rid of so called separate but equal doctrine, if we put that on the ballot, would you think that those black schools would have gone out of existence in the state of Texas?”

“We wouldn’t have had any of the advancements in equal rights if they had been put up to a popular vote,” said Baker.  “Minorities don’t ever get their rights that way.  That to me is one of the fundamental reasons that we need to continue to move Senate Bill 1 forward.  It is about equality of rights under the law,” said Baker.

“I firmly believe that equal rights delayed are equal rights denied.  Perhaps the urgency was brought on by the Supreme Court Action on the defense of marriage; but even if it hadn’t come from that, I still think this is an action we should have taken, and it’s appropriate to do it now,” said Baker.

Maui Senator J. Kalani English also testified in support of the measure saying, “I’d like to enter into the record today, the editorial that was in the Honolulu Star-Advertiser this morning by Hinaleimoana Wong Kalu entitled Hawaiian Values Differ from Western Traditions.”

“Just to summarize, what Hina talks about is basically saying you cannot merge the idea of Hawaiian values and Western… It lays out some of the traditional Hawaiian marriages—aikāne, punalua, and other types of marriages. This is our traditional Hawaiian marriages. So when people say, let’s defend traditional marriage—yes of course—I defend traditional Hawaiian marriages. So I’d like to eneter this into the record so that we have a clear understanding,” said English.

Among those who vote against the measure were: Senator Sam Slom (R); Mike Gabbard (D); Donna Mercado Kim (D); and Ronald Kouchi (D) of Kauaʻi.  One member, Glenn Wakai, was excused.

“This bill will not advance life, liberty, or happiness in this state,” said Senator Slom, who provided about 20 minutes of testimony.  “This bill will not improve our economic conditions,” he said.

“At last count, 14 states in fact have legalized some sort of same-sex marriage, which leaves—in my public school math—36 states that have not.”

“This bill is an attack on religious freedom and the First Amendment,” said Sen. Slom.  “Make no mistake about it.  The so-called protections in this bill, as written now, will not protect religious organizations and their facilities.  This bill gives additional legal causes of action, and people will use them.  They will continue to sue,” said Sen. Slom.

Senator Clayton Hee, Chair of the Senate Committee on Judiciary and Labor defended the bill saying, “Language has been included that preserves the sincerely held religious beliefs of religious organizations.”

He said the Senate’s measure takes into account the concerns expressed by both the religious community and same-sex advocates and recognizes freedom of religion by:

“Exempting a religious organization from liability for refusing to make its facilities or grounds available for solemnization of any marriage celebration if the religious organization does not make its facilities or grounds available to the public for solemnization of any marriage celebration for a profit; and specifying examples of the types of religious organization activities that do not constitute ‘for a profit.’”

“We all saw the thousands of people who showed up on Monday to lend their voices on both sides of the issue, but we unfortunately didn’t give the same opportunity to people on the Neighbor Islands,” said Sen. Gabbard who was among those who voted against the measure.  “What about that farmer in Kaunakakai who couldn’t afford the airfare to come to Oahu to testify,” he said.

“I know some people have said we have talked this issue to death and we’ve already heard all of the arguments.  That may very well be, but the real issue here is—have we really done all that we can to give the opportunity for people’s voices to be heard.  Afterall, isn’t that what the democratic process is all about,” he said.

“This is even more reason that we should heed the advice of the people who are urging us to let the people decide by putting this back on the ballot in 2014 as a constitutional amendment,” said Gabbard.  “The fact is there are many valid concerns that opponents of this bill have, and it’s a mistake to ram this through without taking the time to really address them,” he said.

“What I heard during our marathon hearing on Monday was that people are very worried about protection of religious freedom and how also this will impact our children’s education,” said Gabbard.

“Although I acknowledge the assurances of the Senators from Kailua and Waipahu about opt-out provisions in DOE policy, for our tax-payer funded public schools, people should not have to worry about their kids being taught that homosexual relations are normal and natural if that isn’t what they believe.”

The final vote came after a initial vote on Monday night by the Senate Committee on Judiciary and Labor.  The initial passage advanced the bill with five voting in favor including: Senators Hee, Shimabukuro, Galuteria, Ihara, Solomon; and two voting no including Gabbard and Slom.

The House Judiciary and Finance committees have already scheduled a hearing on the measure set to begin at 10 a.m. on Thursday, Oct. 31. and end at midnight. At that time if there are people who signed up to testify still waiting to speak, the hearing will be continued on Friday, November 1 at a time to be determined, officials said.

Due to the anticipated high volume of testifiers, the Judiciary and Finance Committees will assign registration numbers to people who submit testimony and wish to testify in-person.

According to information released by the House, those who submit testimony online and wish to testify at the hearing will receive an email with their registration number; and those who submit their testimony in person will be assigned a number at that time.

“The numbering system is being implemented to more efficiently assist the flow of people and their testimony during the hearing. It will also allow testifiers to know where they are on the testimony list and plan their presence accordingly,” the announcement said.

For more information on how to submit testimony for the upcoming hearing, details are provided at the following link.

Updates from the special session and the progress of other bills introduced are available at the following link.

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  • Jujubee

    Ofcourse! :)

  • 101

    Wow. I feel sorry for all of the local-owned family businesses that would be driven out of business by the increased expenses of having to offer group medical coverage for full-time employees who actively pursue the AIDS virus. The rates would have to go up an awful lot, to pay for risky behavior like that. And the insurance companies won’t be able to distinguish when they set their rates- they’ll have to raise EVERYONE’s rates, even normal people.

    • kimo

      Seriously??????
      You need to work on some compassion practice.

      • 101

        What an odd thing for you to say.
        I have plenty of compassion for the owners, employees, and customers of local-owned family businesses.

        • MauiShadow

          You don’t have even a speck of kindness or compassion for anyone. I have read many of your posts and they are all filled with hateful bile for anyone who doesn’t agree with you. Must be awful being trapped with all that hate… You should really try to be more like Jesus and love everyone!

          • 101

            You don’t have even a speck of kindness or compassion for anyone. I have read many of your posts and they are all filled with hateful bile for anyone who doesn’t agree with you. Must be awful being trapped with all that hate… You should really try to be more like Jesus and love everyone!

    • NiCuCo

      Encouraging people to be in a committed relationship will increase the prevalence of AIDS?

      • sharing

        Its more, what kind of relationship that has more likely to the prevalence of AIDS.

    • Maui_Mike

      I am married to a person of the opposite sex and have always been heterosexual, but with all due respect, I do not understand your comment, how are two people in a committed relationship perpetuating aids? They are no more doing so than any other group, that stereotypical notion is simply ludicrous, they will pay taxes and contribute the same as any other married couple, I can’t understand your intolerant thinking at all, I hope you will reflect on this and perhaps gain perspective.
      Aloha.

      • stand alone

        Do you believe in love between two people is a reason to be in a legalize marriage? Then they should make it legal for, teachers involved with their 14 years old student, or a 37 year old with a12 years old or legalizing more then one husband or wives. This about sane and insane. And correct and incorrect, right and wrong. This gross decision is agents all human race.

        • 101

          “stand alone” does not stand alone in speaking the truth.

        • Maui_Mike

          What I believe is that it’s not our place to tell consenting adults who they can marry, your examples are absurd and juvenile, you are thinking of marriage as a religious right, it is far more, committed adult deserve to be afforded the basic human rights as their counterparts enjoy, after all they contribute in taxes and the economy the same as we do.
          It’s simply a matter of fairness to me my friend.

    • Space Aids Killed My Cat

      You are either completely delusional or the most dedicated troll I have ever seen.

      • eoe

        The latter.

      • 101

        You are either completely delusional or the most dedicated troll I have ever seen.

        • 101 is a d0uche

          Running out of material I see. lol.

    • MauiShadow

      To the posters replying to “101″… please know that he is a hate filled troll who is constantly having his posts deleted by administrators for being overtly hateful, intolerant, racist, etc. Any rational and compassionate person can easily see that his absolute venom and hatred has caused him to have a break from reality. Only a sociopath could suggest that gay folks are “actively pursuing the AIDS virus”. He is a sad pathetic injured soul who can only look outside himself for the source of his misery when the true source is staring back at him from the mirror.

      • 101

        To the posters replying to “MauiShadow”… please know that he is a hate filled troll who is constantly having his posts deleted by administrators for being overtly hateful, intolerant, racist, etc. Any rational and compassionate person can easily see that his absolute venom and hatred has caused him to have a break from reality. Only a sociopath could suggest that those who chose to pursue the act of homosexuality are not “actively pursuing the AIDS virus”. He is a sad pathetic injured soul who can only look outside himself for the source of his misery when the true source is staring back at him from the mirror.

        • 101 is a d0uche

          The truth hurts. Lol.

        • MauiShadow

          Ha… copying and pasting my post doesn’t make it true. I have never had my posts deleted by the sdmins. Whereas a few days ago you were ranting about how the democrats are all KKK members, and your posts were removed for being offensive.

          • 101

            Liar. I did not say “the democrats are all KKK members”.
            There are probably MANY low-information Democrat lemmings who are unaware that the Ku Klux Klan was founded by the Democrats, and continues to function as the militant arm of the Democrat party through today. The Democrat party is the largest racial hate organization currently operating in America, and many people who are ignorant of this fact, vote for them. Democrat Senator KKK Grand Wizard Robert Byrd never lost an election in over 60 years, and they would probably STILL be voting him back into office, but he recently died in office of old age, at 92.

    • allenbam

      101, seriously, you are one of the saddest, stupidest people to populate this island, if indeed you do…how sad that you have such a viewpoint in 2013…read much? your post has absolutely NOTHING to do with gay marriage, or ANY marriage for that matter…now go back to your cave…

      • 101

        allenmam, seriously, you are one of the saddest, stupidest people to populate this island, if indeed you do…how sad that you have such a viewpoint in 2013…read much? your post has absolutely NOTHING to do with gay marriage, or ANY marriage for that matter…now go back to your cave…

  • The Truth

    Gay “marriage?” — What a sad commentary on our society. We have all been brainwashed… yes, BRAINWASHED… into believing that the gay lifestyle is an acceptable one. What’s even worse is that now they would have us buying into the notion that if you don’t agree with them that somehow YOU are the person who is broken. Gay “marriage” is not a marriage at all as described in the Bible. That IS where the institution of marriage began, by the way. Therefore, if you believe in marriage at all you are suggesting that you believe in the Bible. You cannot pick and choose which parts of the Bible to believe, you either believe or you don’t. So, if you believe the Bible then you’d have to believe God’s view of homosexuality. It is absolutely wrong. That’s why I find it so interesting that the gay community wants to participate in “marriage.” If the whole truth were known, I’m guessing that they truly just want the government recognized benefits of a “marriage.” Or maybe it is also a way to hope to attempt to legitimize an otherwise illegitimate relationship. Actually the more I write about it, the more I realize if they can twist God’s view of homosexuality they can just as easily twist and/or ignore His view of marriage. I any case, I have written a limited portion of my views on the matter. However, just to be clear, let me also say while I detest the behavior, I love every single gay person on God’s earth. Why? Because God loves them and we are called to love them as well. That doesn’t mean I have to accept their inappropriate behavior. I love the person but detest the behavior. I am saddened and, honestly, a bit frightened when I consider the inevitable consequences of choosing to walk away from God as a nation.

    • MauiShadow

      You say you love them and yet you fight to deny them basic human rights? There is so much incorrect info in your post it’s hard to know where to begin, but first you need to read history… the concept of marriage was around thousands of years before the bible was even a thought. It is in no way a “Christian” invention. Marriage was originally intended as a business arrangement between families, not a religious rite. Your statement “if you believe in marriage, then you believe in the bible” is absolute rubbish. I could spend hours refuting all of your misinformed claims, but really, even if every word you wrote is true, it doesn’t matter one bit… BECAUSE YOU CAN’T FORCE EVERYONE IN THE US TO FOLLOW THE BIBLE!!!! WE ARE A SECULAR SOCIETY!!! Understand? As passionate as you are about your personal; interpretation of a book written by MEN and revised many times over the centuries, you can’t force everyone else to abide by your views because you claim to know how god feels about gay folks. I believe in God too… and I believe he made all of us in his image, therefor I believe God intends for there to be gay folks. If anyone is twisting God’s “views” it is you. You say we can’t pick and choose parts of the bible? Well then I expect you to stone to death any of your neighbors who commit adultery, eat shellfish or wear clothes from different fabrics… it’s all in the bible! Why aren’t you out fighting for the right to own slaves? It’s in the bible and you said we can’t pick and choose! Explain yourself! If the bible really is God’s word, and you have to believe every last word of it, then why aren’t you out killing adulterers? Do you see how absolutely ridiculous your argument is?

      • The Truth

        Actually, Mike, yes we are moving towards being a secular society. However, the Bible was at the core of the foundation of this nation. That is historically accurate, regardless of how much noise you want to create to the contrary. That’s why it was so great. The more our nation moves away from God the more we will have people, like yourself, believing in things that have no foundation. The Bible IS where the institution of marriage was created that is an undeniable fact supported by many respected secular and non-secular historians. Regarding the timeline issues about which you wrote, the Bible contains information & writings from a time long before all the separate writings were actually assembled into what is now the Bible. It wasn’t “thought of’ it was compiled over time. Also, Mike, there is no basic human right to homosexuality nor to the marriage of those who claim to be the homosexual. I also want you to know that I am not asserting my interpretation of anything. If God had said that homosexuality was acceptable, then I’d be on the front lines, with you, defending it. I know exactly what the Bible says about it. I also know how difficult it must be for those people who were born with a proclivity towards it. But that doesn’t mean it’s OK just because someone has a STRONG DESIRE for something.
        Anyway, I’m sure you’ll be happy to hear, I’m done. I don’t think I will change your opinion. You certainly won’t change mine. I do appreciate how fervently you argue your viewpoints though.
        I think we’ll probably know each other someday when we no longer rely on our “interpretation” and we discover what God really meant by everything in His Word.

        • MauiShadow

          Thank you for your civil, but still very misinformed reply. I would like one shred of proof that the bible is the foundation of marriage. Also, regarding your original statement about taking the entire bible literally… why aren’t you out stoning adulterers to death? The bottom line is that the bible is a work of fiction, written by men, not “God”, and as this is a secular society that was in no way founded on the bible, we should not be governed by one religion.

          • The Truth

            Did you really just write, “this is a secular society that was in no way founded on the Bible?” – If you won’t even agree with the historical FACT that this country was indeed founded upon Biblical principles and a strong belief in God and his precepts, then this interaction is absolutely ridiculous. Initially I thought I had been dealing with a person of reason. You are in complete denial though. You won’t even acknowledge the basic truth about our country’s beginnings. In fact our very Constitution was founded not only by Godly principles but by Godly men who knew that in so doing, it would set our country on a path to greatness. Also I agree that this country should not be governed by ANY religion. That’s one of the min things our founding fathers were trying to avoid. You may notice, I have not pushed a particular religion on you, nor would I ever do so. I am talking about a belief in God. A belief shared by over 90% of this country by the way (another FACT). I can see now that you simply want to be right so you disregard anything that is contrary to your personal beliefs… even when it is undeniable fact. I won’t share with you the proof that marriage was founded by God in the Bible. Why not? … Because I have very serious doubts that it would matter to you. If you think of the Bible as a work of fiction, then I will not be able to convince you of anything inside of it. Do you realize that secular historians regard the Bible as the most historically accurate document of all time? It’s true. But you think of it as nothing but made up stories. So how is one supposed to present evidence from a book in which you don’t believe. If you really do want to know the truth about the origins of marriage, then you will do the minimal research it would take on Google.
            I will be praying for you that God will somehow reveal himself to you in a way you will recognize!

          • 101

            The Truth, I think that people who deny the existance of God are liars. I think that they know that God exists just as Satan knows that God exists. But if they admit that God exists, that they will have to come to grips with the fact that they are responsible for their own sins. Their own pride and arrogance prevents them from admitting the truth. So they just lie, claiming that God doesn’t exist. As evidence of this, watch what happens when one of them is faced with an overwhelming crisis, like the imminent death of themselves or someone they love- they INSTANTLY call out to God and ask for prayer. Hypocritical phonies. Every time.

          • usbworks

            I think that people who deny the existence of Zeus are liars. I think that they know that Zeus exists just as Hades knows that Zeus exists. But if they admit that Zeus exists, that they will have to come to grips with the fact that they are responsible for their own sins. Their own pride and arrogance prevents them from admitting the truth. So they just lie, claiming that Zeus doesn’t exist. As evidence of this, watch what happens when one of them is faced with an overwhelming crisis, like the imminent death of themselves or someone they love- they INSTANTLY call out to Jesus and ask for prayer. Hypocritical religious phonies. Every time.

          • TSL

            Grasshopper you are getting closer to the truth!What you say is part higher truth but one must remember there was never a separation from God!One must rise above the veil or forgetfulness(denial)!All error is a silly dream.No book has the memory of God wake up to sanity.

    • TSL

      Hay Truth,Your working the tiny mad idea that we are separate from God !Sorry cant leave the source !Wrong mind, no sin,guilt,fear If one gos there “oo”Im a victim kill or be killed by what ever it is Iam projecting !Dude you need a Miracle!Forgiveness,Atonement,sanity!

      • 101

        TSL, if you’re trying to say that you are your own “god”, then your “god” sucks.

        • sucking God

          101 their god sucks yes. But, what is being sucked?

          • Yortuk Festrunk

            My peripheral protuberance.

      • The Truth

        TSL, please re-read my original post. I don’t understand to what you are referring. Sorry.

        • TSL

          Bible theory:Confucius say theory, everyone have one!Please wake up,from the dream that you think there is a little old dude out there who will send you to hell if you dont listen to the bible!Truth is truth some high some low,be carefull with that truth!

          • 101

            I am appalled by the sheer arrogance of someone who would stick their fingers in their ears, their head in the sand, and declare themselves to be the highest being in existance. Sounds like a textbook “god” complex, on the magnitude of Adolf Hitler. Seek help. Seriously.

          • TSL

            For the moment,dont judge—-judgment is wrong.Just become more watchful ,more relaxed with your energies.

          • stand alone

            You’re a poor misled sole. You’ve probably been thought that when you go to heaven there will be 666 virgins waiting for you. LOL………

    • 101

      “The Truth” speaks the truth.

    • Maui_Mike

      The things you speak of are only true if you take the bible literally and out of context, that same book speaks of tolerance and love as well, but that is largely ignored, with that said, marriage has nothing to do with religion in this case therefore your point is not valid.

      • 101

        Why would you think that taking the Bible literally is a bad thing? I take the law of gravity literally, and that’s worked out for me pretty well so far.
        How, exactly, is it that you are claiming that “The Truth” is taking the Bible “out of context”?
        You speak of “tolerance”, yet you seem to have none for anyone who dares not to goose-step to the jack-booted ideals of your regime. I know a hypocrite when I see one.

        • Maui_Mike

          Funny that you think equality and tolerance are “jack booted regime” ideals, that speaks volumes about your narrow minded view.
          The bible is not anything more than a book written by men commissioned by king James, if taken literally it would be at ones peril, fiction should never be used as a roadmap for life.

          • 101

            Funny that you and your jack-booted regime uses Orewellian semantics to refer to inequality as “equality”, to refer to intolerance as “tolerance”, and to refer to those who choose to pursue the act of homosexuality (the group with the highest depression and suicide rates) as “gay”.

          • Maui_Mike

            I think it best to respectfully agree to disagree, I can’t wrap my mind around hate or stereotypical paranoia towards specific groups. You are entitled to your opinion even if it is delivered in an immature almost playground bully way.

          • Crazy talk

            I’m sure they never get depressed from being repressed by ingnorant people who claim their God is about love and then hate their fellow man for being the way God made them.

          • The Truth

            Okay now THAT one made me laugh out loud… for REAL!

            NOW Maui_Mike is saying that King James commissioned men to write the Bible! Seriously? heheheh
            At this point I actually kinda feel sorry for him. It’s almost cute. Kinda like watching a 5 year old try to explain where babies come from.
            Maui_Mike… it’ll be okay. You just need a cookie and a nap. Nighty Night!

          • Maui_Mike

            Your ignorance is very profound, it is common knowledge that the bible (KJV) was written from 1604-1611 at the behest of the Church of England and king James, the less talked about fact is that this is a version edited to suit the king and the churches goals.
            Funny that you know nothing about your own religions history, it is impossible to take such an ignorant uneducated person such as you seriously….that’s the TRUTH

  • what you ask for

    You all include my self will all suffer on what to come with this decision. I really think that you all don’t understand. You’ll will soon finds out. And when you realize it’ll be to late. Oh well. ” Fools”… p.s. don’t even try to ask me what it is. You’ll know it when comes….. good luck..

    • WTF?!!!

      Uhhh… “HOMOSEYWAT?!!!”

      • noackyouhomo

        Homosey”wtf and Uhhh” does that look familiar? Homoyou.

    • 101

      “what you ask for”, as well as everyone else outside of the liberal loonies, can see EXACTLY what’s coming. And it’s not good. For anyone.

      • Maui_Mike

        The sky is falling, the sky is falling! Cried chicken little!

    • Maui_Mike

      The sky is falling, the sky is falling! Cried chicken little!
      Please elaborate on your prediction….I have a curious fascination with fringe viewpoints.

      • stand alone

        Hint, same saying as ” got one foot in the door “. What will they want later? Now just sit back and you’ll see. it will affect everyone you and me. We all will pay for it and it will be to late to change the already done. And yes it’s me still standing

        • Maui_Mike

          That is ridiculous, you believe that malarkey then you are both paranoid and uneducated to the facts if you truly believe that, if you do then you have my sympathy.
          Giving people long overdue rights is not a bad thing and will not effect others in an adverse way.

        • MauiShadow

          If you read your history you will find that hateful religious extremists like yourself, used these exact same arguments to keep people from different races marrying. Now inter-racial marriage is common, hellfire didn’t rain down upon us and our country is now a better, more diverse and inclusive place. Please cite one example of how allowing same sex couple to marry will personally affect you.

          • 101

            Stand alone is not “a hateful religious extremist”. You are. You’re blinded by your fear, hate, and intolerance, from your narrow religious views.

          • MauiShadow

            I don’t know why I keep responding to your juvenile posts. The only argument you can spout is, “no I’m not, you are.” I believe in no established religion, but choose the best of all of them. I love Christ the man because of his message of love and tolerance for ALL people. I don’t hate people, I only hate ideas that try to bring us back into the dark ages. And the only thing I fear is people trying to force everyone else to follow their religion. Logically, everyone who opposes same-sex marriage is a hateful religious extremist. If you are capable of following a logical argument you could understand this, but unfortunately most fundamentalist religious folks are prone to magical thinking. Since the only arguments against same-sex marriage are on religious grounds, it’s safe to assume that the particular religion espousing those views, views homosexuals as less human than heterosexuals… that they are less deserving of the rights and protections that heterosexuals enjoy. Anyone who would deny another human being a basic civil right granted to everyone else, because of a genetic phenomenon is judging others based on how they were born. They are viewing one of God’s creations as less deserving of love and respect… that is hatred. Thankfully many Christians actually follow the example of Christ and they don’t judge, they love their neighbor as himself. It is only the extreme fundamentalists that believe they know the only truth and they grant themselves the power of judging others on God’s behalf. That is extremist. So there you go… hateful, religious extremist.
            I thank the lord that you folks don’t get to write the laws for the rest of us.

          • 101

            “genetic phenomenon”?
            Please, spare me. That impotent argument was created by people who want to create an excuse to justify the poor life choices they want to pursue. If homosexuality was a “genetic phenomenon”, then the law of natural selection would remove it in exactly one generation, as the act of homosexuality does not result in procreation. Lame.
            And even if there was some genetic predisposition towards an incorrect sexual preference, that doesn’t justify the act of homosexuality, any more than a genetic predisposition towards alcohlism is a justification to legalize drunk driving.
            You low-information flat-earth goof-balls need to get some new material.

          • MauiShadow

            “low information flat earth”? You are the one who believes in biblical fairy tales! Homosexual behavior is found naturally throughout the animal kingdom. It is a biological trait, and like other traits like eye-color it can skip many generations. If homosexuality is purely a choice as you would have us believe, then when did you “decide” to be straight? If it were a choice, do you think anyone would choose to be in an oppressed minority and be subjected to the hatred and ridicule of illiterate knuckle-dragging inbred neanderthal morons like you?

          • 101

            People don’t “decide” to be normal- people are created normal.
            It is only when they abuse the free will given to them by their Creator, that about 1% of people decide to pursue the act of homosexuality. Just like how they choose to swish and speak with an assumed lisp. There is no biological reason- it is something that they do by choice.
            And spare me the “hatred” B.S.- disagreeing with you is not “hating” you. I don’t hate you- I just recognize the fact that you are wrong.

          • 101

            The Bible says nothing against inter-racial marriage.

            So who, exactly, is it that you are claiming “used these exact same arguments to keep people from different races marrying”?
            Be careful of the answer, because IF it ever happened at all, you’ll probably find that it was the Democrats- the very same rich elitist liberal Democrat slave owners that hard-working blue-collar middle-class conservative Republicans (like President Abraham Lincoln) freed the blacks from.

          • stand alone

            New rules New laws New regulations. Remember that. So sorry so blind ignorant too understand.

  • Big Mac

    The bible was created to make money. Man was created through evolution so there is no right or wrong in same sex marriage, It is not a sin.

    • tiny mic

      Sinners will say anything to try to disguise the Sin. But, your words are weak. Compare to the size of the sin you’re trying to cover up.

    • Yortuk Festrunk

      Lol, Big Mac. Is that what you tell yourself as you’re hunched over your laptop in the middle of the night with your pants around your ankles, furiously pounding away with one hand on the keyboard?

  • usbworks

    Well that just leaves the House. It’s pretty much a sure thing now.

  • usbworks

    Another thousand years from now, a tiny time on the Earth’s evolutionary scale, I hope humans will finally be free of all these religious cults who obey two thousand year old edicts verbatim.

    • 101

      Amen, usbworks.
      Starting with the religion of Atheism. I could just never buy into it, because it requires too great a leap of faith- there just isn’t enough evidence to support it.

  • stand alone

    Ok, now for you guys who don’t understand, and just can’t comprehend. Put those bibles and history books away. And I’ll draw the picture out for you.
    1) a man and a woman = baby
    2) man and man = no baby
    3) women and woman = no baby
    4) positive and negative = correct flow of current.” Correct”
    5) positive and positive = no flow of current.” Incorrect”
    6) negative and negative = no flow of current.”Incorrect”
    So, what is it hard to understand? And that’s all I have to say about that.

    • TSL

      AC or DC?

    • MauiShadow

      So by your overly simplistic explanation, you must believe that every married person should be forced by law to create children right? If it just comes down to the ability to make babies then it should be illegal for sterile men and infertile women to get married, as well as elderly folks who are past their biological prime. Maybe your marriage is as empty and bland as an electrical schematic drawing, but most people enter into marriage because of their deep LOVE for one another. That is something your moronic example fails to account for.

  • usbworks

    No no no. He’s talking about orgasms. One day MauiShadow, you will get tired of sex with women only and you’ll transform into an old white bisexual. Then you’ll find the pleasures of playing with men. You’ll know when it comes….

    • MauiShadow

      Cool, in that case I can’t wait!

  • 777

    I’ll tell you the truth!! Marriage is a sacred covenant between a man and a women. It is to be kept holy. The man represents Christ and the women represents the church. Ephesians 5:31-32 for this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh. The is a profound mystery–but I’m talking about Christ and the church.
    Marriage is between a man and a women and it must be kept holy. I am so saddened with what is happening for our children’s sake for the sake of what is really true because when you go against the truth your going against protecting yourself from the worst outcome in your life. We are on dangerous ground when we oppose the truth. I will pray for each person whose eyes have been blinded to this truth. I have experienced where you are and I know the emptiness and lack of understanding of the truth that a person could have such as the ones who are against traditional marriage. Come on search your hearts and you will find that the truth has been revealed to you before but somehow you have refused because of some deep desire that needs to be fulfilled. Only God can fulfill you and your not going to find it through anyone or anything other than Him.
    Always remember that God loves every single person, it’s not about if he loves you or not, it’s about His plan that he created before the foundation of the world and you can find out the truth of that plan for your life in his Word!!
    God Bless every single one of you!!! I pray that the eyes of your understanding will be enlightened to His truth.

    • TSL

      What would Jesus say? Oh let them humans do as they please you know Grandfather gave them free will so its out of your hands.Grandfather Loves ALL.

      • stand alone

        hah, what are you talking about? The waltons? With grandpa and grandma and John boy and mariellen? Brah, the church, not the little house on the prerie. Brah, you stay on the wrong channel watching the wrong movie.

      • 101

        TSL, put down the bong for a minute. God is not some gray-haired little old “Santa” figure. He is Almightly God, who spoke the world into being. Omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent. And He is a just God- that’s why we can’t just go around doing all sorts of stupid stuff and just expect to show up at his doorstep after having rolled in doo-doo and have him expect to be able to be with him. He loves us. He hates our sin. And He instructs us through his word to do the same.

        • TSL

          Sin,guilt,fear there is help for you out there!Its OK you dont need to hide out in the world of separation the real world will all ways be there for you! Its all an illusion 101.

    • MauiShadow

      That’s all well and good for you to believe, but not everyone wants to be a Christian. To some of us the bible is nothing more than a work of fiction written by MEN. The great thing about this country is that everyone is free to worship their own choice of religion. You can have faith that you have chosen the right one, but the TRUTH is that non of us will know the truth until the day we die… all we believe about God is just faith until that time. So that is why one religion doesn’t get to write all the rules for everyone. No one is forcing any religious organization to honor a same-sex marriage. This is about the civil benefits being granted to all of our citizens equally. There is no argument against same-sex marriage that doesn’t involve religion. Claiming that everyone in the US needs to live by biblical principles makes you no better than the Taliban. And once again I’ll put the question out there (even though non of the bible folks here will answer)… If we all must live by the dictates of the bible, why aren’t you all out in your communities stoning all of the adulterers to death? There are many dictates from the bible that non of you true-believers ascribe to, so why is this one so all-important?

      • 101

        No. The Taliban hates Christians just as much as you do. That’s the whole reason for the 9/11 attacks. They’re on YOUR side.

        • MauiShadow

          Oh small minded troll… big difference between the law of gravity and the law of “god”. Gravity can be scientifically proven, quantified, and observed consistently. The “law of god” cannot even be agreed upon by all Christians… it is impossible to prove and easy to disprove.
          Also, I don’t hate Christians, or anyone else (including you), I try to follow the example of Christ in everything I do which makes me infinitely more Christian than you will ever be no matter how many times you go to church. And I know that nuanced arguments are not the forte of fundamental religious zealots, but what I am saying is: The Taliban is to Islam, what people like yourself are to Christianity. Get it? The Taliban uses fear to force its strict interpretation of the Koran on everyone, just like you (and fundamentalist zealot Christians like you) use fear to force your narrow interpretation of the bible onto everyone. So you see, you are pretty much identical to the Taliban in that you both believe that you should be able to force everyone to believe your religion.

          • 101

            Lol. Go ahead and explain to us how gravity works. This oughta be good.

          • MauiShadow

            Gravity, is a natural phenomenon by which all physical bodies attract each other, with the gravitational force of an object being determined by its mass relative to the mass other adjacent objects.
            So now explain to me how Gods law works without just saying that the bible says it’s true.

          • usbworks

            Let me take a shot at this. The law of “God” is a man made set of rules to force selfish little monkeys to work and live together peacefully under the threat of going to hell. They’ve all been superseded by more just and humane laws of men and the originals are now obsolete.

          • MauiShadow

            sounds about right.

          • 101

            So you two goof-balls think that the world has gotten more “humane” over time?
            I seriously doubt that the parents of little Lee Iseli would agree with you on that point.

          • 101

            Using the word “phenomenon” and then describing observations of gravity, does nothing to explain how gravity works. It ain’t magnetisim. It ain’t air pressure. It certainly ain’t centrifigual force.
            So tell us exactly what makes something as simple as gravity work.

          • MauiShadow

            I gave a simple explanation of gravity. Of course it is too much for you to comprehend because your answer will always be “God did it”. No need for science right?

          • 101

            You did nothing to explain how gravity works. You simply used the word “phenomenon” and described some observations of gravity. Let’s look at the word “phenomenon”:

            “phe·nom·e·non
            fəˈnäməˌnän,-nən/
            noun
            noun: phenomenon; plural noun: phenomena
            1. a fact or situation that is observed to exist or happen, esp. one whose cause or explanation is in question.”

          • 101

            Lol. The Flat-Earth Society has finally brought up the word “science”. Your use of the word “science” indicates to me that you don’t even know what science is.
            The low-information crowd’s ideas regarding “science” would be comparable to them trying to use a Toyota Prius to “disprove” the existance of Toyota Motor Corporation.
            Every once in a while, one of them even tries to disprove Toyota Motor Corporation’s existance by using a rear-end motor vehicle collision involving a Toyota Prius as “evidence”.
            You guys crack me up.

          • TSL

            You been up all night get off the crack!

          • MauiShadow

            …and interesting that you don’t challenge the Taliban comparison, but you’re confused about the law of gravity.

          • 101

            We’ve already covered the Taliban- they hate Christians just as much as you do. That was the whole reason for the 9/11 attacks. They’re on your side.

        • usbworks

          One of these days we’re going to be reading about 101 doing something really terrible based on his Christian conspiracy theories.

          • 101

            One of these days we’re going to be reading about usbworks doing something really terrible based on his Christian conspiracy theories.

      • 101

        Lol. Try not believing in the law of gravity and see what happens to you when you jump off a bridge. Be sure to get back to us and let us know how that worked out for you.

    • Maui_Mike

      I do not wish to attack your religion, so I will simply point out that marriage is not a Christian invention and predates Christianity, not everything has a biblical equation.

      • 101

        Marriage was created by God, and nothing predates God.

        • Maui_Mike

          As for your god, many things predate that invention of men, I’m sure you also believe the world is only six thousand years old as Christianity dictates in spite of overwhelming proof to the contrary…your religious based argument is amusing but fundamentally flawed as are you apparently.

          • 101

            What “overwhelming proof” is this that you are claiming?
            Please lob me something slow and underhand, like “carbon dating”.

          • Maui_Mike

            Radiometric dating and carbon dating are two small examples, the many dinosaurs in museums might be another clue…any rock on the ground is older….the proof is everywhere while yours is steeped only in myth and plagerism from earlier religions, if you choose to believe in fairy tales that is your absolute right, but don’t feel the need to push your primitive puritanical views on the rest of society, that is overstepping.

  • it coming soon

    lawyers across the state breathed a sigh of relief…….they are that much closer to so many more clients…………gays want to get married………..oh boy wait till you want to divorce….then the real fun begins and the lawyers are smiling all the way to the bank

    • TSL

      Funny thing is the gay couples I know are far more stable than most heterosexual couples! Go figure that out.

      • MauiShadow

        So true! I’d also like some of these folks who claim that gay marriage will destroy the sanctity of marriage to explain why Massachusetts (the first state to legalize gay marriage) has the lowest divorce rate in the nation.

      • 101

        Sounds like you need to get out more.

  • 101

    I have plenty of friends and co-workers who are homosexuals, and I love them just like I love my normal friends and co-workers. Love the sinner, hate the sin.
    And the only place that 10-15% of the population chooses to pursue the act of homosexuality, is in your dreams. In reality, it’s more like 1-3%, tops, just like any other mental illness.

    • MauiShadow

      And do these gay friends of yours know that you think they suffer from a mental illness? I’m guessing the gay folks you think are your friends probably think you are a serious a$$hole. And it’s way more than 1-3% tops… It’s more like 50/50 tops/bottoms.

    • TSL

      When sex is no longer a dividing force,you see human beings.

  • I know the world

    @ tsl you need to get out more……..

    • TSL

      @ I know the world :Your the expert tell me where to go and what to do!!

  • Maui_Mike

    Did it occur to you that might be the result of being castigated for their lifestyle and being made to feel as if they are a social pariah needed to hide who they are….that might have something to do with that statistic.

    • MauiShadow

      Exactly Maui_Mike! It is specifically because of very vocal bullies like 101 above, who claim homosexuality is a mental illness, that gay youth are so prone to despair. Being constantly shamed for who you are must be devastating, especially during adolescence.

      • 101

        Them being ashamed is simply evidence that they know that what they are choosing to do is wrong.

        • Maui_Mike

          No, shame is manufactured and perpetuated by narrow minded zealots such as yourself, full of hate and intolerance in the name of your Santa clause for adults religion….you are a laughing stock…please continue to entertain us with your archaic thoughts.

          • 101

            If you insist:
            I believe that there is an absolute “right” and an absolute “wrong”. I believe that right and wrong are determined outside and independent of us. I believe that right and wrong are not situational. I believe that right and wrong are not affected in any way by people’s opinions of, or willingness to abide by, what is right and what is wrong.

          • Maui_Mike

            It is comforting to know that your narrow view of right and wrong puts you in a small minority, the majority is far more enlightened and has transcended your archaic ways.

          • MauiShadow

            Truth is there are way more gray areas than there are absolute rights and wrongs… however in this case you are absolutely wrong in every last word on every last post of your bible-poisoned mind.

        • TSL

          Dude take a chill pill!Wright & wrong only exists in the brain its called EGO,insanity,stop shooting your self in the foot its going to be hard to walk your talk!

          • 101

            TSL- I have a question for you:
            Was what Westley Allan Dodd did to 4 year old Lee Iseli with an electric drill (while he was still alive) wrong or not? Explain your answer.

          • TSL

            Hay sponge Bob you telling me them politicians in Honolulu make the rules?Yes Patric,there is three ways to deal with it #1accept the rules,codes,&laws.#2 run for political office and change the rules,codes,&laws.#3get the H-E double tooth pick out of our state!


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